Season 2 – Episode 2: Justin Morgan – Persistence Is Key


This week I’m talking with Centricity Music Publishing songwriter and producer Justin Morgan.  Justin shares his experience going from a struggling indie band to charting on Billboard all without a label. Plus, we talk about what it’s like signing your first publishing deal and what the first year will probably be like for most newcomers. 

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at 

In this episode we talk about:

*Taking the initiative to connect with industry people.
*Don’t be scared to ask but you can’t be annoying. 
*Don’t be afraid to send a couple of songs to a publisher. Don’t send them 50 though.
*There’s persistence and there’s over persistence.
*Persistence is key to obtaining any level of success in the music industry, over persistence will kill any level of success in the music industry.
*Anytime an indie artist starts getting Billboard traction, labels started noticing and we were playing showcases in Nashville.
*Exploit your contacts and ask people to meet and get coffee and ask questions, etc.
*Ask people to a breakfast meeting.
*You’re not going to get signed from your first meeting. 
*If you’re a good hang, they will listen to your songs.
*When you sign a pub deal, you will spend the first year writing with everyone they can put you with. They have to figure out who you work well with and what you do best.
*Be a sponge and learn as much about co-writing as you can from seasoned writers for that first year.
*You can be a great writer and a horrible co-writer.
*If you’re going to email a producer or publisher, etc., find out what they’re excited about and working on and who they’re working with.
*When you approach a publishing company you want to work with, try to find a mutual friend who is working with them already.  That’s the best way.


Justin Morgan is a producer, writer, and artist from Nashville TN. Justin grew up in the great state of Texas and feasted on a diverse selection of music from Glenn Miller to George Strait and The Eagles to The Wallflowers and everything in-between. That may be the reason Justin can’t sit still in one genre for long. As a songwriter and producer Justin has had cuts in Country, Christian, Rock, and Pop and has had over 50 songs placed in TV and Film. As an artist, Justin has had over 10 million streams across his various artist projects and streaming platforms. 

Season 2 – Episode 1: Gary Gray – Use Your Ear, Not Your Gear


This week I’m talking with producer and engineer Gary Gray in L.A. Gary was mentored by music legends Quincy Jones, Jermaine Jackson and Phil Collins. He’s also become an in demand producer for Disney and 20th Century Fox. We are discussing the importance of networking and being a professional producer out of your home studio and Gary also shares a some tips and tricks to get your music to sound like the hits you hear on radio from his online teaching course The Lucrative Home Studio.

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at 

In this episode we talk about:

*Being mentored by heavyweight Motown players as a kid.
*Anything you can do to enhance the human factor of your career by dealing with other people face to face is a good thing.
*Playing drums for Motown with Barry Gordy and Suzanne de Passe.
*working for Music Connection Magazine selling advertising.
*Protocol is communication and coordination.
*Don’t open your mouth unless you know what you’re talking about or have researched.
*Believe in people.
*Prepare yourself and know what you’re talking about.
*You’re either networking or not working.
*Go above and beyond for another human being.
*Being mentored by Quincy Jones, Phil Collins, Chick Corea, Jermaine Jackson and more.
*Working with Disney as a one stop shop.
*Producing from a home studio.
*Disney connected me with 20th Century Fox.
*1/3 of the formula is quantity, but 2/3’s of the formula is quality.
*Being a mentor and teacher to.
*The Lucrative Home Studio course –
*  music composed for a commercial.
*Checkerboard A/B ing.
*Use a reference track to compare with from the beginning in your DAW to create radio quality recordings.
*Mix your track while comparing to a mastered track.
*Shave a little bit of the low and the high end and pull the volume of that reference track down to the volume of your mix. Now you’ve reverse engineered that master recording pretty close to what the mix sounded like before it was mastered. Now compare it by ear to your mix.
*You’re comparing, not matching.
*Writing articles for Tune Core.
*The quality of work is the most important thing. 
*Licensing is a marathon race.
*Use your ear, not your gear when you mix and master.
*Balance your life.
*Styles and genres being asked for by music supervisors.
* for music briefs.


Gary Gray is an award winning composer, producer and engineer. He’s produced multiple projects for 20th Century Fox, Disney, Hollywood Records, A&E, EMI, CBS and many others all in a home studio that cost him less than $2,000 to build.
Gary grew up in Cleveland, Ohio as a prodigy drummer and was raised on symphonic classical music, R&B, rock and roll and big band jazz. Gary’s first job was playing drums for Berry Gordy at Motown Records in Los Angeles.
Gary himself has been mentored by Phil Ramone, Quincy Jones, Jermaine Jackson and Phil Collins. Gary honed his marketing savvy as the advertising and promotions manager for Music Connection Magazine. He has always enjoyed “both sides of the desk” in the music business.
Having taught music since the age of 16, Gary not only walks the walk, he is also widely regarded as an exceptional mentor for composers, songwriters, musicians, producers, vocalists, and engineers. Gary brings you real solutions to real problems that home studio owners all over the world have benefited from.

Episode 27: John Martin Keith – Thank you! (Season One Finale)


This week we are wrapping up season 1 of the YOU CAN Make A Living In The Music Industry Podcast! I am saying “thank you” to all of my listeners and asking for some interaction from you about this season as we prepare for season 2.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking Points:

*Thank you all for listening and supporting this podcast and it’s mission! I hope you are encouraged by it and now have some hard evidence to know that YOU CAN make a living in the music industry.

I want to thank all of my season 1 guests: Gordon Kennedy, Mark Irwin, Elizabeth Chan, Jared DePasquale, Doug DeAngelis, Keith Everette Smith, Jeremy Quarles, Hope Thal, Eric Kalver, Nate Sousa, Philip Peters, Lauren Lucas, Brent Milligan, Ben Phillips, Blaine Barcus, Jordan Childs, Eric Horner, Chad Segura, Eric Hurt, Jared Ribble, Wes Cole, Dave Cleveland, Bobby Rymer and my wife Keely Brooke Keith for helping me with the pilot episode!

I want you to interact with me by commenting on this episode through one of my Facebook pages: YOU CAN Make A Living In The Music Industry, Edenbrooke Music, John Martin Keith or Marty Keith, on instagram OR email me at regarding the following:

Tell me your 3 favorite guests/episodes.

*1 thing you learned from that guest.

*What is 1 episode you have not listened to yet but are looking forward to checking out?

*I look forward to your answers!

*Let me know if you have certain guests you would like to hear from or certain topics you would like to know more about for season 2.

*Season 2 is well underway and will release before too long. I will post on all of my pages before it releases so you can be ready.

*Thank you all again for listening, learning and supporting this podcast! I am forever grateful.

Episode 26: Bobby Rymer – Know Your History And Prove Your Worth


This week I’m talking with my friend Bobby Rymer who owns the publishing company Writer’s Den Music Group in Nashville. He’s worked his way from the bottom to the top of record labels and publishing companies in the music industry and has a career that has spanned over 35 years. We are discussing the process of working your way up the ladder at publishing companies and record labels, the importance of knowing the history of the music industry, what publishers are looking for when signing new writers and the best venues to play in Nashville to get noticed by industry insiders.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking Points:

*I own Writer’s Den Music Group. As a publisher I have a day gig and a night gig.

*During the day I pitch songs and have meetings, etc. At night I go to showcases and meet writers and artists.

*Spend money smartly.

*Look over your options at what you want to accomplish and how.

*You don’t have to have an office anymore if you have a laptop and a phone you can do most of your work that way.

*I was doing social work and realized it was not my passion and I decided to go back to school to get a degree in the music business.

*My friend got a job at Capitol Records in the mail room and called and asked if I would be interested in his old job at a record store. Then 9 months later he called saying he got promoted and asked if I wanted my name put in for the mail room job at Capitol.

*The mail room at a record label is the bottom of the totem pole which is where most people have to start.

*Get in anyway you can and prove your worth.

*Ask yourself “how bad do you want it?”

*Internships and a course called “Copyright Law” are worth their weight in gold.

*You really don’t start to understand how the music industry works until you’re in it working everyday and making relationships and learning how things are done.

*I got to sit in on meetings and learn how you find talent and find songs.

*If you can, try to work out a smaller company because you will stand out more as opposed to a larger company that just churns interns out every semester.

*After about a year and a half an opening came up in A&R and I was able to move up because the label looked within before looking out.

*My main job in A&R was to go out and find songs for the artists on the label by meeting with the publishers in town.

*If you want to consider the music business for a career, you better know your history.

*When looking for songs for artists, I would sit with the label heads after they talked with the artists to know what they were looking for.

*You go out and find songs you’re passionate about and the come back and see if there’s a home for it on the label.

*You have to listen to songs and see if they are checking off the boxes of things you are looking for to fit an artist.

*When you are reaching out to labels or publishers, you better know who they are and the history of people they’ve worked with and what they’ve done and you better know who they are working for now.

*Get Billboard Magazine and make sure you know every artist, label, producer and writer and study the charts so it becomes second nature. That is where you start. You shouldn’t have to pause when someone asks who produced or wrote the latest hit is.

*Before you knock on a door or make a phone call to a company, understand who you are talking to because if you don’t they will quickly realize that you don’t want this bad enough or you haven’t done your homework.

*I was A&R for about 4 years at Capitol, then there was a regime change and lost that job.

*Opportunity is not going to knock on your door, you have to go out and meet it.

*I kept having meetings and eventually bumped into a publisher I knew who used to play me songs and he offered me a job as a tape copier at the music publisher Almo-Irving.

*Even though it was a step back from where I had been, I wanted to stay in the industry and I got the job as the tape copy, which is the ground floor at a publishing company.

*A tape copy made copies of 8-10 songs on a tape and put together lyrics and a label for publishers to take to pitch meetings.

*The tape copy is the best place to start at a publishing company because that’s where you learn the catalog and the songs and writers.

*The writers would come down with new songs and you would put the songs in the system so you get to spend time with the writers and build relationships.

*I was tape copy for about 3 years learning until a vacancy came open and I naturally moved up to song plugger.

*I realized that publishing is all I ever want to do because I get to work creators who make things out of thin air and I get to help find a home for it.

*A song plugger is being aware of the labels in town, the artists in town and your job is to find a home for these songs. sometimes it’s find new writers and bringing them in to the company.

*As a songwriter show up and do the work and always have your antenna up because you never know where a song idea will come from.

*Some songs in a publishing catalog don’t see the light of day after a while because they have a time stamp on them using certain language and melodies from the time it was written and the language and melodies maybe different now than they were then and those things change.

*Maybe the song is there but the demo is dated and will turn someone off even if it’s a great song.

*If the song will take it, I like demos with acoustic instruments. Don’t go crazy with reverb. Maybe do a glorified work tape and the demo has the chance of having a longer shelf life because they aren’t dating it with certain tones and sounds.

*The guitar/piano vocal demo is great because that’s the way I hear it when the writer plays it for me and there is nothing getting in the way of the lyric and the melody.

*If you bring a fully produced demo and the producer knows they aren’t going produce it that way, then they have to sit with the artist and start subtracting what they don’t want and that is hard for artists to hear sometimes because they are hearing it one way and being told they are going to do it a completely different way. If you have a guitar/piano vocal and say I’m going to start adding this, they get it.

*Some producers need to hear the full demo as it would be on the record.

*The song will dictate what it needs as a demo ultimately.

*resumes mean nothing in this business. It’s all relationship based.

*I worked for Almo-Irving for 14 years and eventually ran the Nashville office. It got bought out by Universal Music Group so after a year off I started a publishing company called Writer’s Den Music Group.

*Write what you know. Your story’s already been written. Tell it!

*People say “no” to songs I think are hits because this is an art, not a science and everyone has their own opinion. Find people who have similar tastes to you and send them songs that fit you similar personalities. If people have different tastes than you, find out what they are.

*This business is an educated guessing game.

*You have to be careful to not create demos that are too much like an artist because if they pass on it and you pitch elsewhere, those artists or labels think it sounds like that particular artist and once they find out the previous artist passed on it, they think something is wrong with the song and it will not get cut.

*Don’t pitch what they’ve done, pitch what they might be doing.

*Write what’s familiar to all of us but unique to you.

*It’s the music business, not the music I’ll do whatever I want and hope it works.

*For tv/film sync music you have to stand out and offer something that no one else is.

*We need the first you, not the second anybody else.

*It’s about creating a mood.

*Everything is negotiable.

*Music supervisors only want songs that are pre cleared so they don’t have to wait 3-4 days to to get an answer from a publisher if they want to license a song.

*As a publisher when I want to sign a new writer I’m looking for songs that have a good lyric and melody. If I can whistle it, I’m in.

*I’m not looking the next whoever, I’m looking for the first you.

*Great writers have a thumbprint like great singers do and you know within the first few seconds who wrote the song.

*I’m looking for someone who can write a song told a thousand different times, told from a different angle.

*If someone is reaching out to me wanting to get signed to a publishing deal, the best thing is to meet me at workshops and conferences where we can meet in person. That’s what I’m there for. Most of the time it’s by word of mouth from people I know or at songwriter nights when I go to listen to new writers.

*I close my eyes when I listen to songs because I want to see the movie you’ve created. If I don’t like a song it’s because I’m seeing it and feeling it.

*Maybe I’m not crazy about the song, but there are a couple of lines that are new and fresh and that will make me want to talk to the writer because that might be the tip of the iceberg for something greater.

*I’m looking for potential.

*Hone your craft so that when someone listens to it, there is nothing they can suggest to make it better.

*You can’t control God given talent, but you can control work ethic.

*I prefer to sign writers to long term contracts, not single songs because I want to build a relationship. I like to court a writer for period of time to get to know each other before I sign them.

*I’m looking for a certain amount of talent and a work ethic.

*Find people who will give you a leg up you do the same for others.

*If we don’t see you, if we don’t hear you, you don’t exist.

*Be out and play out. You need to play out 1 night and be out 4 or more.
*You never know who you’re going to be standing next to or see on stage that you can develop a relationship with.

*Play out so people can see you.

*There are venues for tourists and venues for industry people. Play the venues such as The Local, Belcourt Taps, Douglas Corner, 3rd and Lindsley and The Bluebird where the industry people attend.

*If you’re playing at these venues, you’re going to find your “class” of people to rise up with at that is usually at the earlier shows from 5-7pm. You want to be hanging around those people.

*It’s about making smart decisions, hanging out at the right places at the right times, giving yourself opportunities and letting people see you are out and about and proactive. Eventually someone will take notice and you’re going to get invited to the next level.


Bobby Rymer is the owner and general manager of the Nashville based music publishing company Writer’s Den Music Group.
Writer’s Den was originally started in 2007 with Rymer at the helm. Among the cuts secured are multiple songs by Alan Jackson (including the 2013 Grammy nominated song, “So You Don’t Have To Love Me Anymore”), Lindsay Ell, Alabama, Chris Stapleton, Kesha, The Steeldrivers, Lee Ann Womack, Plumb, Ricky Skaggs, Olivia Newton-John, Trace Adkins, Randy Owen and Joe Nichols as well as several cuts by Bonnie Raitt. In addition, the company has landed a number of film/TV placements including numerous songs in the TV show, Nashville. They have also secured cuts in Canada, Europe, South America and Australia.
Currently signed to the roster are Brennen Leigh, Noel McKay and Gordon Kennedy.
Prior to Writer’s Den, Rymer was VP/GM of the Nashville office of Almo/Irving/Rondor Music, a company that was founded by Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss of A&M records fame. Some of the writers he was privileged to work with during that time were Bekka Bramlett, Peter Frampton, Patti Griffin, Nanci Griffith, Emmylou Harris, Paul Kennerley, Mark Knopfler, Kent Robbins, Annie Roboff, Anthony Smith, Marty Stuart, Gillian Welch and Craig Wiseman.
Before joining the publishing side of the business, Rymer was at Capitol Records/ Nashville from 1985 to 1990. Initially starting in the mailroom and then moving to the A&R Dept., he worked with Garth Brooks, Barbara Mandrell, New Grass Revival, Marie Osmond, Kenny Rogers, Dan Seals and Tanya Tucker among others.
He is an Alumnus of Leadership Music, class of 2002.

Episode 25: Dave Cleveland – You Have To Play For The Song


This week I’m talking with my friend Dave Cleveland who is one of the top session and touring guitar players in Nashville. He’s played on over 30,000 songs throughout his career for artists like Little Big Town, Steven Curtis Chapman and Miley Cyrus. We are discussing the importance of learning parts correctly when playing for artists, ear training, being a “parts player” not an “everything player.” Plus, why you have to play for the song, not for yourself.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking Points:

*I started playing guitar when I was 12 or 13 and by 14 I knew that was all I wanted to do.

*I learned to read music when I was in the school jazz band in high school.

*I was diligent and self motivated in practicing because I knew that to get to the point I wanted to get to and play like the people I was listening to, it took a lot of work.

*I wanted to play with orchestras and symphonies so I had to learn to read notation.

*I went to Florida after high school and studied jazz guitar for about a year and learned more about theory and chord voicing, etc.

*I got a call from the owner and director of the band TRUTH to be their guitar player and that was my college degree. I got that gig because a guy from a church named Joe Hogue that I met and wrote music with had become the keyboard player and he recommended me.

*I was into rock music with the “more is more” attitude and walked into this situation was there was no room for that kind of playing. After the first couple of shows, I thought I was doing a great job until the drummer came to me and told me to listen to the parts again that are on the album because I was playing way too much.

*That was the best thing in my life for me to learn and affected my whole career.

*You have to play for the song.

*When you play on an artist’s record, you have to listen to everything around you. You have to know where your spots are to add and you have to know where to not play.

*Being in TRUTH for 3 years helped fine tune that idea of being a “parts player” as opposed to an “everything player.”

*Always have a good attitude and treat whatever you’re working as the most important thing you’ve ever done.

*Always do your best.

*After TRUTH I took a break from playing professionally.

*A friend of mine asked me to come check out Nashville, so we came down and hung out with him while he was tracking an album and asked me to overdub a guitar part.

*That was the moment that we realized that we should move to Nashville and start playing guitar again professionally.

*Within a year I got called by Twila Paris to play for her because a guy that did lights for TRUTH referred me and I got an audition for her and got the gig.

*When you have to take other work that is not music related, you are being prepared for something.

*When you have down time, don’t neglect your practice time because that is essential for when you show up the next time.

*Never waste your down time. If you have down time, there’s a reason and you should dig in and whatever you feel you’re weak in musically you should strengthen that.

*After Twila Paris, Steven Curtis Chapman called me to play for him on tour because he saw me play with Twila and liked what I did.

*When your touring with high level players, the caliber of musicianship is so amazing and you have to get up to that level.

*When you touring with big artists you’re expected to play the parts EXACTLY like the record, unless the artist gives you permission to take a little liberty.

*If you audition for a band or artist, you should know not only your guitar part but all the other guitar parts note for note. Be so aware of all the other instrument parts so when you go into the audition, you are over prepared and try to have the exact sound or as close as you can get.

*Don’t go into debt, so put money aside now so when you need certain gear for a gig you can get it.

*We would rehearse 3-4 weeks before a tour started so we could have the show down so the audience isn’t getting a rehearsal on the first show.

*I took what I learned from SCC and went back to Twila Paris’ band and worked it out with her management to rehearse the band for 2 weeks before we even saw Twila so when she walks in it’s like she’s playing along to her album.

*There’s nothing more frustrating for an artist than sitting there while players are mumbling through there parts if they don’t have them down.

*In today’s world, the band guys need to take it upon themselves to really rehearse before working with the artist because they don’t have the luxury to rehearse for 2 weeks all together before a tour.

*Some artists I’ve played with are Steven Curtis Chapman, Twila Paris, TRUTH, Susan Ashton, Amy Grant, Martina McBride, Avalon, Point of Grace and Phillips, Craig and Dean.

*I’ve also done studio work because my name started to get out after working with Twila.

*People say you can’t be a studio player and a touring player and be successful.

*The touring musician has to be the guy who re-creates the parts.

*The session musician has to be the creator of the parts.

*I’ve been able to do both so it’s allowed me to be successful in ways that others haven’t.

*I try to get myself in the mindset each day like I’m just picking up the guitar for the first time and it’s the first song I’ve ever played on so that gets me excited.

*Doing both is not as hard today because of technology. You can be on the road touring and track a part on your computer and email it where it needs to go.

*You have to know how to record yourself.

*You have to be skilled.

*If you’re lacking in some area, get better at that.

*If your ear is not well adapted to picking up lines in songs, get some ear training.

*I have an online guitar teaching course:


Dave Cleveland is a first call session guitar player in Nashville, Tennessee. He has played on a multitude of Grammy and Dove Award winning projects with artists including Steven Curtis Chapman and The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir. Over his 26 years in Nashville, Dave has played on over 30,000 songs for artists like Miley Cyrus, Little Big Town, Stephen stills, Russ Taff and many more. His movie credits include The Apostle, Jimmy Neutron, and Courageous. He is a member of The Sam’s Place house band at the Ryman Auditorium which is hosted by Steven Cutis Chapman. On that stage, he has had the privilege of performing with Ronnie Milsap, Ray Stevens, Hillary Scott, Chris Tomlin, Amy Grant and many more. Just recently he was honored to play at two of the Presidential events at the White House: The Liberty Ball and the Candlelight Dinner. Dave was also invited to play at the White House for President George Bush by Michael Omartian during President Bush’s administration.
In a constant pursuit of creativity, Dave has amassed quite a large library of songs used consistently on TV shows, commercials, and movies worldwide. With over 1500 original compositions in rotation, he is constantly heard on shows like 20/20, The Chew, Undercover Boss and many more including the 2017 Pepsi Lemon Lemon commercial.
But above all of this, Dave is a follower of Jesus Christ and a dedicated father of Olivia, Catherine, and Joshua, and husband to his amazing wife, Tammy, of 32 years.

Episode 24: Wes Cole – Write What Is Authentic To You


This week I am talking with Wes Cole who works for sync licensing agency Brewhouse Music in L.A. where he helps musicians by partnering with them and getting their music placed and heard on tv/film projects and commercial ads. We are discussing what it takes to work for sync licensing agencies and custom music houses and also what artists need to do in order to pitch their music successfully to agencies for sync placement. Plus, metadata, metadata, metadata.

Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking points:

*I went to California State University Northridge for the music industry program.

*I had a business law class and ended up getting an internship because the substitute teacher was a rep for a sync company called Position Music.

*I learned about metadata, metadata, metadata.

*I learned how to take a song from just the artistic view and make it commercially viable.

*The more chances you get to do internships the more chances you have of growing.

*Metadata is the most essential aspect of sync music because you are tagging the song with information like: artist, genre, mood, contact info, keywords, etc.

*Have the ear for what makes a track syncable.

*When a song sounds like it was written for sync, that can actually hurt you. You want it to be an authentic artist piece that incorporates the elements that work for sync (stomps, claps, call and response vocals, etc).

*Remain persistent.

*I moved on to intern at Human Worldwide which focused on advertising music.

*Be willing to stay late and do extra work where you build trust so you can move up in a company.

*The machine room is a team of people that work behind the scenes pulling tracks from the catalog and editing them to picture and cleaning them up and cleaning up videos sent in by clients and making sure the voice overs are attached, etc.

*If you want to do something in a company you have to ask for it. You can’t expect them to give you the opportunity.

*I wanted to start writing music for the briefs coming in so I got that opportunity and it started open so many doors for me because I got first hand feedback from their creative team to tell me ways to improve my song and get the right mix and listening to the reference track and using the right tempo, etc.

*Sometimes you get to write to picture and sometimes you have to make it up in your head so you have to work off a reference.

*I got hired at Massive Music which is an international music house.

*I learned how to do business development with them which is important to know as as freelance composer you don’t have a sales rep working for you. This teaches you how to interact with agencies, copywriter, art directors, etc.

*There is a certain etiquette to interacting with these people.

*When trying to reach out to people you want to license your music, be direct. Say who you are, what you’re doing a give a downloadable link to your music.

*I will know quickly whether or not we will be able to work together.

*Be short and sweet, but have enough intrigue to catch someone’s attention.

*Only reach out when you have music that fits what that person/company is working on.

*If you can, add a life antidote that connects with what you saw on the spot that company worked on and how it impacted you or how you enjoy some aspect of the the spot. That personal connection can be huge.

*Brands have a certain sound.

*Tape delay is one of the most essential tools in sprucing up your sound.

*Make songs that are not too busy so they don’t distract from what’s on the screen.

*I currently work for Brewhouse Music as the Producer focusing on business development, focusing on brands and creatives, while managing our catalog and signing artists and making sure everything gets done on time, etc.

*We are always being asked for music that sounds like hip hop, vintage sounding beats, holiday music and women empowerment.

*We get asked for custom music vs. artist music about 50/50.

*There are huge benefits to have unreleased music that you can put out once it gets placed so they the client can “break” the artist.

*But, if you’re trying to build a following and be out touring etc, I wouldn’t wait because it can take a while for songs to get placed.

*I’m looking for artists that have top quality production value.

*Submit the absolute best quality music.

*Ad music is very specific, not too many genres.

*When creating custom music we use our in house team and outside artists.

*When writing custom music you get paid a demo fee of around $300.

*A sting may pay a demo of around $150.

*If you win the spot, commercial usage pays from around $3000-10,000 for digital online use, not broadcast use. Broadcast can grow exponentially depending on usage.

*If you want to be an artist pitching music for sync, don’t base your music off what you think is going to be syncable. Always write what comes natural to you, then figure out how to add syncable elements that will help boost its commercial appeal.

*Write what is authentic to you because we’ll know whether its something you wrote because you thought it would sound good in a commercial. That’s not going to do as well as an authentic piece which is what the agencies are looking for.

Write as many songs as possible in your own vein and produce them as well as you possibly can and take a chance and throw it out there and see what happen. You would be surprised at the opportunities that can come.

*If you want to work for a sync licensing agency, start taking as many opportunities as possible whether interning, reaching out to sync houses in your area and seeing if you can shadow someone or getting a phone call with someone so they know your name and you can show you interest. It never hurts to ask to see if they are looking for someone to help out.

*You may have to do a lot for a little to get in the door.

*Be willing to put in extra hours.

*Network you head off.


Weslee Cole is an independent artist/producer from Simi Valley, CA.
Having worked within the Music Industry in several fields such as composition, sync licensing, and live events he holds a wide understanding of the business and how it works.
Wes currently deals with artists, composers, and clients at BrewHouse Music a custom, sync licensing company located in Los Feliz. (@brewhousemusic)
His goal is to help musicians reach the next big step in their careers through partnering with them and getting their music placed and heard.

Episode 23: Jared Ribble – Seek After Your Uniqueness


This week I am talking with one of my oldest and best friends in Nashville, Jared Ribble. He is one of the best drummers I’ve ever known and worked with.  He is owns a great recording studio and production company and is the drummer for the band Denver and the Mile High Orchestra.  They have been on multiple tv shows and made it to the finale of the Next Great American Band. We discuss the “reality” (get it) of being on reality shows like American Idol, The Voice, AGT, etc., finding your peer group and helping each other out. Plus, diving in to what makes you unique.
Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking Points –

*I started playing drums when I was a kid.

*My dad did concert promotion in Wisconsin and he would bring big bands to our area and I got to know the drummers.

*Will Denton who played drums for DC Talk and Steven Curtis Chapman would come to town and hang out with me and encourage me and I’ve tried to pay that forward as well.

*Be that person of encouragement to someone else.

*Reach out to your heroes on social media and see if they will give you advice.

*I went to Belmont University to be in the Belmont Big Band. I never got that position but ended up in a touring band called Denver and the Mile High Orchestra and have been the drummer for them for the past 20 years.

*I was never passionate about big band music even though I wanted to be in that Belmont big band. But, I was being prepared for something else.

*Through Denver’s band is how I ended up playing on different tv shows.

*Dive in to what makes you unique.

*When you understand what makes you unique, you get less offended when you don’t get a job or gig or when you get let go from a gig because someone else has the uniqueness they’re looking for and what makes you special is not what’s helping them.

*DMHO was on a show called The Next Great American Band which was put out by the same people as American Idol.

*Denver and MHO on Next Great American Band Finale

*All of those shows are scripted reality shows. They are writing a story for the whole season and finding ways to fit the performers into the story.

*We made it to the top 3 and I realized I loved playing on tv. I enjoyed the pressure and excitement of playing live.

*I have been the house band drummer for various award shows so when you play on tv you have to come in prepared, ready to go and get it right immediately.

*If you want to get on a tv show competition, go for it! But, watch those shows carefully. From the start of a season to the end of season ask yourself “what story were the producers trying to craft?” Because at this point you are an actor and a performer that is performing and acting out their story that they are trying to tell.

*If you have a unique story that tugs on the heartstrings of America, you have a better chance of getting on the show.

*It’s a lesson in “craft your story.” Figure out what your story is, craft it and tell it well because that is what those shows want, then they will infuse that into their bigger story they are trying to tell.

*That’s why some of the best singers on the show don’t go as far as they should, because their story isn’t as exciting and compelling to America.

*Reality tv is about drama so you have to remember they may craft some drama around you and you have to be willing to put up with what they are trying to put you in.

*Be aware that you are stepping into a bigger story.

*You sign a contract saying they can use your likeness anyway they want, positive or negative, for the show.

*All of that said, it does launch careers and if you want to do it, go for it!

*When it comes to me playing in house bands on award shows, etc., tv producers would see DMHO and think we would be a great house band and invite us to work on various shows. Once you get into that world, you continue to get hired for other similar shows.

*Then I got called to play in the show Nashville which you and I played on together.

*I got called by Sherrie Cunningham Gibson to play on the show because she knew the band Sixwire who were playing the band for another character on the show and they referred my to her when she was asking for more players.

*Playing on that type of tv show is very different because now you are actually an actor.

*We are playing along to music that is already recorded. We get the tracks maybe 24 hours before filming and have to learn and copy the parts exactly as the recording because if I hit a cymbal and there is no cymbal hit in the recording, it won’t match up and I won’t get called again.

*Because it is a show about music, they had a music director on set that would make sure we did everything correctly.

*The Musicians Union is who tracks shows with musicians on them to make sure we get paid.

*Not every tv show will run through the Union and if doesn’t you won’t get paid when re runs air.

*Starting a recording studio does not come overnight.

*Start with what you can afford and start making music.

*Take the tools you can get your hands on and don’t go into debt buy the fanciest gear.

*My partner and I started Advantage Music Production.

*I own 745 Recording Studio.

*Once you have done it for 20+ years touring becomes more about having new experiences than it does about the music.

*I started a record label called Reel Loud Records with my dad and DMHO was the first band we signed which actually generated 7 figures of revenue.

*Tons of exposure on tv doesn’t mean you are going to make a lot of money from downloads.

*If you want to be a professional musician, seek after your uniqueness, practice hard and be as good as you can be for that moment, find a group of people you mesh well with.

*You get jobs by running in a circle of people that are your friends that are already doing it and sticking with them as you all move up the ladder of the music industry. That is what will help grow your career.

*Stick with your peer group, be friends, help each other out.



Jared Ribble has drummed for 20+ Grammy, Dove, AMA, CMA, and other such award-winning artists, and has appeared drumming over 50 times on national television networks. He is co-owner of Advantage Music Production and operates his recording studio 745 Recording.  Jared has engineered and mixed records for The Voice finalist Johnny Hayes, and iTunes best-selling jazz vocalist, Jaimee Paul.  In addition to music, Jared spends time mentoring college students and young adults and is actively involved with adoption advocacy work.  He lives in Nashville, TN with his wife and three young boys.  You can read more about Jared at his website

Episode 22: Eric Hurt – Patience And Hard Work


This week I’m talking with my old friend Eric Hurt who has spent over 20 year as a song plugger, publisher and A&R rep working with some of Nashville’s biggest music companies and songwriters. We are discussing what it takes to work as a song plugger and publisher. Setting yourself apart so that people find value in who you are and will want to work with you. The importance of showing up and giving your all so that industry people will start noticing you. Plus, two of the most important ingredients to be successful in the music industry.
Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking Points:

*The people who are most successful are the ones who don’t give up.

*Find ways around “no.”

*Went to Belmont University for composition and arranging. Although I wasn’t required to have an internship with my degree, I realized the importance of having one so I could network and get to know people.

*I got an internship at a publishing company called Almo/Irving which is the best thing I have done in my career to set up me for success.

*Laws have changed and it has become more difficult to get an internship if you aren’t in school.

*You can still get an internship without going to college and going through an internship program, but you will probably work with a small company instead of one of the larger companies.

*I ended up at Forefront Records for a while, but stayed in touch with the people at Almo/Irving and they recommended me for a position as a song plugger for producer Joe Scaife at Cal 4 Entertainment. That happened because I maintained my relationships with people at Almo/Irving.

*Be patient, not pushy.

*A song plugger is someone who maintains relationships with all the labels and A&R teams. They also build relationships with all the publishers. You keep up with all the artists in town that are working on records and the kind of material they are looking to record and when your client (songwriter) has a song you feel works for that artist’s project, then you take that song to the record label or producer or artist and play it for them to try to get them to record it on their album. You try to get the songs into as many hands as possible.

*A song plugger also sets up co-writes with other writers or artists.

*Song pluggers can work for a company or independently.

*Liz Morin and Ronna Reeves are great independent song pluggers. But they don’t work with just anybody. It has to be artists they feel like has a home somewhere.

*If you hire an independent song plugger, make sure they have good relationships with the people in the industry.

*If you want to be a song plugger, you have to be very outgoing, social and love meeting new people. Be comfortable in a lot of different scenarios, one-on-one or with a room full of people. You need to look for companies that have success because they are going to help set up initial meetings for you as a song plugger so you can get to know the high up people at labels and publishers, etc.

*After a while I decided to go back to making music and stepped away from the business side, but after a few years I realized I preferred the business side of music.

*I came back and worked at Brentwood Benson Publishing as creative director basically doing the same thing I had done as a song plugger with the other companies, but on a larger scale.

*Whether you’re an artist or want to be on the business side there are 2 things that there are no substitutes for: Patience and hard work.

*Don’t compare your journey to someone else’s.

*For the past few years I worked for Black River Entertainment doing publishing and setting up co-writes, looking for songs, etc. I signed an artist named Willie Jones to a publishing deal which led me to working with my current company EMPIRE.

*If you are in a creative position at a publishing company, you are setting up co-writes, pitching songs, dealing with A&R on signing new talent to pub deals, etc.

*Most people think of A&R as being only on the record label side, but there is that same element when signing writers to a publishing deal.

*I’ve been diligent learning multiple sides of the industry, broadening my web of contacts so that I can move in different areas and genres and pivot as needed which has created value over time and led to multiple opportunities so that people are always reaching out to me for a position, not me seeking out new positions for myself.

*When I sign a writer for EMPIRE I look for people that already have a team around them and they have some momentum at what they are doing currently.

*At Black River Entertainment it could be a brand new writer that had no cuts but was could at tracking and producing.

*Sometimes it’s knowing when to sign new young writers and knowing when to sign anchor writers that have had hits over their career.

*At EMPIRE I am the VP of A&R launching the Nashville division. They’ve had lots of success in the urban space including Kendrick Lamar, Cardi B, Snoop Dogg, etc.

*They wanted to get into country music so I am spearheading that by offering something with an urban philosophy and mindset on how we partner with artists and put music out.

*When you’re married you have to have a supportive and understanding spouse. It’s a lot of odd hours. You have to have a balance and make sure you have family time. When your off, be off.

*Learn the power of “no.”

*If you learn when to say “no” that can make you more valuable and more respected to people.

*If you want to work for a label, publisher, etc. or get signed to one as an artist or writer, you need to move to a music town that does those things and immerse yourself in the genre and the side of the business you want to be on.

*Find out where things are happening, where the influencers are, where people in the music community hang out so you can show up be around it.

*In Nashville every Monday is Whiskey Jam where a lot of artists perform and every Tuesday is Tin Roof Revival. Show up and be there because industry people go to those events and you can rub a lot of elbows and start building relationships in a really authentic way.

*Don’t be pushy or try to rush anything.

*Find people you connect with.

*Just show up in everything you do.

*Show up to the city you want to be in, the events you want to be at, to work, your co-writing session on time and early and people will start noticing.


With over 20 years experience in Nashville’s music industry, Eric Hurt is the first official team member of EMPIRE Nashville as their VP of A&R, spearheading EMPIRE’s Country initiative around Willie Jones with one of his first EMPIRE signings being iHeart Media podcast & soundtrack Bear and a Banjo; produced by T Bone Burnett, narrated by actor Dennis Quaid, and written by Grammy winning producer/writer Jason Boyd aka Poo-Bear and Jared Gudstadt. The project features Zac Brown as well as a song co-written with Bob Dylan. Previously, he was Sr. Director of Creative at Black River Publishing in Nashville representing 5x #1 hit writer/producer Josh Kerr, Black River artist Abby Anderson, producer Bobby Huff, among many others.

Episode 21: Chad Segura – The Baseline


This week I’m talking with my friend Chad Segura who is the Vice President of Publishing at Centricity Music in Franklin, TN. He’s been a publisher in the Christian music, country music and sync licensing markets for two decades. We are discussing the differences between marketing and publicity, details about what music publishing is and what Centricity Music Publishing is looking for when they sign new staff writers to their roster. Plus, the importance of internships if you are wanting to work for a publishing company and the baseline component to be successful in any area of the music industry.
Show Notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at

Talking Points:

*VP of Music Publishing for Centricity Music.

*I Played music growing up and went to Belmont as a vocal performance major and realized during orientation week that I didn’t like the technical aspect of what that would require so I transferred to the music business program.

*I went from performance focused to business focused which turned out to be the perfect fit for me.

*I did an internship in publishing and an internship in marketing for a label.

*The publishing internship was not great for me. I did the work that needed to be done but really didn’t learn a lot.

*The people at the record label internship let me speak into ideas and giving me a voice into marketing campaigns and including me in business lunches when it made sense.

*You should always be learning and getting new experiences in an internship. Not only getting to work on projects and have input but also getting to interact with people.

*After college I transitioned from the internship into a full time position at Sparrow Records which had been bought by EMI Christian Music Group.

*My first job was in publicity which is promoting those artists to outside entities that can let the consumer know about them. Magazines, blogs, social media, etc.

*After a year my boss moved to marketing and allowed me to move with her which was letting the consumer know about the product. CDs, tapes, streaming, etc.

*EMI was creating a publishing role called “catalog development manager” that I got hired for which was getting into the song catalog and figuring out ways to monetize that.

*I’m passionate about great songs and songwriters and helping their songs find homes and outlets and streams of revenue.

*At Centricity Publishing we work with two distinct groups of writers: Staff writers that write for other people and artist writers that write for their own artistry.

*My role is to head up the publishing company and oversee all aspects of the business.

*Publishing is broken up into two parts: The creative side and the administrative side.

*The creative side is everything with the writers and songs finding opportunities for them and generating revenue, etc.

*The administrative side is all the details that have to happen in order for this to not just be a hobby.

*If nobody’s tracking it, registering it, licensing it, collecting revenue, etc. then we don’t have a business.

*We are trying to find talent, find songs.

*We have writers that are signed to us (staff or artist), but we also do single song agreements where we identify a song that we think we can help it find a place.

*Regarding single songs contracts we sign that song because we usually become aware of it

*We don’t take songs that people randomly send us mainly for legal reasons. It can be dangerous to accept unsolicited music which is something we didn’t ask for directly from someone.

*Most likely you know someone that knows a publisher, so have them listen to it and see if they can send it for you if they believe in it.

*It’s way better for us to get it from a trusted source where they can vet it.

*Be affiliated with a PRO – BMI, ASCAP or SESAC

*They are people that publishers trust and can be an advocate for you and they can send to us if they think it is a good song. They are putting their reputation on the line.

*Sometimes we do a sync writers event where we invite unsigned writers along with our staff writers and some music supervisors to work on sync songs together with the understanding that if they do it, then it will be under a single song contract during the event.

*We also do the same thing for worship retreats.

*Finding staff writers is similar in the sense that we hear somebody is good. Sometimes its a person we known for years and they are coming out of a publishing deal and we see an opportunity to work with them exclusively. But, more often than not, we decide to work with someone exclusively after we have done a few single song contracts. Or we keep hearing about a writer from other people or our writers keep writing with a certain person and anything they do together seems great.

*Artist writers are their own thing. They are writing almost exclusively for their own artistry and that’s it’s own very specific thing.

*Staff writers each have specific skill sets and leanings towards different genres or strengths so for us we are very intentional about that. Knowing how many producer/writers we need and are they different enough from each other to where they are not stepping on each other.

*In some cases you need multiple’s of one thing because there isn’t enough to go around.

*How many great lyricists do we have and people who are great at concepts or melodically strong.

*It’s knowing that balance of how much can we physically work with and also do they fit our roster.

*Most importantly for me is do I love this person. I want to see them win. Do they fit what we do and our culture and our work style and we think we can enhance what they do.

*They are plenty of people I love but either we don’t have room or they don’t fit what we do.

*It’s very relational for us.

*The bar though is amazing talent. That’s the baseline.

*We wouldn’t be talking if we didn’t think there was something here in it’s rawest form was pretty special.

*Then we have to figure if and how they fit into what we do and do we fit them.

*I’m not quick to rush into longterm deals with anybody.

*When we enter into a deal with somebody, whatever the term is, my hope is always when the end of that term is done we are trying to figure out how to do the next one.

*the hope is that it will be a long term thing for years and years and everyone will be better for having partnered together.

*Some writers we pay a salary upfront and some we don’t. They all need to be bi-vocational.

*Writers are paid advances on their future royalties which they have to pay back if they song makes money.

*It’s the best loan you’ll ever get because you don’t have to pay it back if they song never makes money.

*Advances are much less than they used to be. Getting an advance or not is negotiable. Some writers want one and some don’t.

*If you get paid an advance for a long time and something big happens and you get cut and generates a decent amount of money, when that comes in you’ve basically already gotten that money so you’re just digging out of the whole that you have. Sometimes that is not as satisfying for people because it feels like your catching up to where I am now and you’ve already spent that money.

*Some people need that upfront, regular payment for budgeting purposes, etc.

*A lot of our writers are doing other things as well. Some are producer for major labels and independently, some are teachers, etc. to create multiple streams of income.

*If you want to work for a publishing company, it’s to be in the cities where they are doing that.

*You need to be willing to learn and try to get your foot in the door.

*If you’re not enrolled in school, it’s harder to get internships especially at the bigger companies because of how they are set up.

*Smaller companies like ours you do not have to be school in to get an internship, so find places to learn and pour in and get a job so you can pay for life while you are trying to do that.

*Internships are one of the best ways to learn the thing and get your foot in the door and let people know who you are.

*As a writer – write!

*If you want to be professional writer, you need to already be a writer. Develop that craft, hone it, know how to write on your own and with others.

*Always try to write with people who are better than you.

*The way you get on our radar is by delivering great music through a trusted source if you don’t know us directly and if you do, building that relationship.

*Be excellent at what you’re doing.

*I am always looking for people that are phenomenal talent.

*Work ethic and ability to do what needs to be done and have a great attitude.

*Be teachable.



Chad Segura began his career at Sparrow Records in 1996, after graduating from Belmont University, in Nashville, TN. His first role was in the publicity department, followed by a stint on the artist development team. And while he enjoyed aspects of both, it wasn’t until 1998 when he joined the publishing team at EMI Christian Music Publishing (now Capitol CMG Publishing), that he found his true passion for working with songs and songwriters.  After several years, at EMI, he then went on to head the publishing division of competitor, Word Entertainment, for several more, before starting and running his own publishing company, Meld Music, in partnership with Fair Trade Services. In the summer of 2015, Chad made the move to Centricity Music, where he currently heads up their publishing division. Over the course of his career, he has had the pleasure of working with a “who’s who” list of Christian recording artists, and songwriters, and he’s still as passionate as ever about the work that he gets to do.


Episode 20: Eric Horner – The Key To Surviving The Music Business


This week I’m talking with my old friend Eric Horner. We are both from Paducah, KY and grew up learning to play guitar at Chapman Music. Eric has worked with country music legends Lee Greenwood, Brad Paisley, Wynonna Judd and Shania Twain. He is now in full time music ministry and we discuss the behind the scenes aspects of landing gigs, what is expected of you as a session player, immersing yourself in the music scene you want to part of and the importance of you guessed it…relationships!

Show notes:

Sponsors: Edenbrooke Productions – We offer consulting services and are offering listeners a 1-hour introductory special. To request more info on consulting services, email Marty at
Talking Points:

*The whole key to this business is relationships.

*Go to a music city and be a part of the grape vine. Build friendships.

*Very seldom do artists have what’s called an “open cattle call” audition. Somebody knows somebody and they get the private audition because you’ve had a relationship.

*Steven Curtis Chapman and I grew up together and he taught me to play guitar. We were in a band together in college. When he moved to Nashville and worked at Opryland Theme Park, he worked with some girls who had gotten record deals and had some hits and they needed a bass player and he called me asking if I wanted to audition and I got the gig. They ended up opening for Lee Greenwood and when I heard through the grapevine that he had an opening coming up in his band, I was able to go to him because I made friends with his crew and band and they took me to him and he gave me an audition.

*Hanging out with people that are in bands is a good way to hear about opportunities.

*You need to come immerse yourself and go to any event that puts you in front of people.

*I’ve known Brad Paisley since he was 12 years old. He played guitar at smaller version of the Grand Ole Opry in Virginia. We would play there once or twice a year and we got to be buddies. He would come to the bus and we play songs together.

*He called me out of the blue and said he got a record deal on Arista Records and they were going to introduce him at Fan Fair (CMA Fest) and he asked if I would be in his band.

*I sang with Shania Twain on tv because her drummer used to be my drummer when I was pursuing a solo career. He gave them my name and they called me. There was no audition at all. I just showed up to rehearsal and did it.

*Be able to recognize people’s abilities because if you recommend someone, you’re neck is on the line.

*I pursued a solo career and had written some songs and Lee Greenwood signed me to a publishing deal and began pitching me as an artist.

*I toured with a band but never landed a big record deal.

*I started a production company called Makin’ Tracks Productions and we worked around the clock for years. Having built relationships with great players, we would use them on sessions for people who had been ripped off by other companies previously.

*Larry Rogers who owned Studio 19 and produced hit records for many country artists took me under his wing and told me to go into his studio and learn. All of those tools were at my disposal. He taught me what to do and not to do in making a record.

*Whatever you do, get up out of bed everyday and do something for your career. Regardless if it’s booking a date, writing a song, getting in the studio, etc.

*As an indie artist, you have to create your own niche.

*I became a session player because I was ready to get off the road. There is a stigma that road players can’t be a session player and vice versa. You can do it, it’s a matter of conditioning and thinking differently.

*On the road you can get away with a lot. You might be taking a 5 piece band and trying to make them sound like an 8 piece band. You can’t do that in the studio. In the studio you have to stay out of the way.

*The most important things in the studio: Time and Taste.

*You have to know when to play and when not to play. What you play has to mean something.

*It used to be you could not be on the road and be a session player. That has changed with technology. Some of the best session players around are out on the road touring now as well.

*With Makin’ Tracks Productions I got of a lot of business from NSAI because I built a good reputation and word gets around quickly.

*Now I’m a Gospel Music artist full time and work with the military.

*I got a record deal with a Gospel Music record label and since I had already recorded two new albums, I was in a unique position that they did not sink a lot of money into me. Instead they leased the albums from me but I retained ownership.

*Things did not work and the label was going under so I asked for what’s called a “peaceful release” and I purchased all of my product from them and got out without any legal problems.

*Whatever music market you’re in, get to where the music is.

*Immerse yourself, go to every writer’s night you can, meet band members and make friends with them.

*Become part of the fabric of whatever music town you’re in.

*The key to surviving the music business is relationships.

*The internet has leveled the playing field so a lot of people can have a career that couldn’t before.

*Don’t ever think you’ve got to get a major record label deal or you can’t do music. You most certainly can.


*Facebook – Eric Horner Ministries, Operation Tank Full of Love , His Tunes Studios

Music has always been a major part of Eric Horner’s life. With Steven Curtis Chapman as his first guitar teacher, Eric grew up with a guitar in his hands playing and singing Gospel music all over Western KY near their hometown of Paducah.

Eric moved to Nashville TN at the age of 19 to pursue his dream of becoming a professional songwriter and musician. It didn’t take long for the doors to open and over the next 17 years Eric toured the world playing and singing backup with such artists as Lee Greenwood, Shania Twain, Wynonna Judd and Brad Paisley.

In 2002, all of that changed. Eric began to feel a call on his life to return to his Gospel music roots and to use his talents for a higher purpose. He surrendered to full time music ministry in the Fall of that year and hasn’t looked back since. Eric and his wife Debby spend over 200 days a year on the road ministering in churches and military bases all across America.

God has given them the unique opportunity to encourage and minister to the newest members of our military as they go through basic training. Eric places a big emphasis on Faith, Family and Freedom along with a call to evangelism in his worship presentations. “With the division we are now seeing in America, there’s never been a more important time for the church to go out and shine His light and be the hands and feet of Jesus in our communities”.